Question the Nebulous Concepts

Q: I feel compelled to write to you, but everything I think to say seems like it only serves to keep my story going. I want it to stop. Somehow I know what you say is true and at the same time, I don't quite believe it. I want the certainty you express. Is there any help you can offer?
 
A: You are right that everything you say will keep the story going. Good observation. So let’s just look at one thing you said, and see if we can use it to start prying the story loose – you said, “I want the certainty you express.”

Look at this one statement and tell me what you really mean. What do you think “certainty” will give you? Certainty about what? When will you have this “certainty”? In the future? When is that? Will certainty stay? What does certainty look like? This one statement holds a lot of clues for you.

Take it apart and look at it. Look what you are really saying to yourself. Find out what you really want. Think about it and tell me what comes up. You’re not really looking for answers right now as much as you are looking to explore the assumptions behind the questions. So don’t worry about answering anything. Just explore.

Q: In a nutshell, your questions led me straight to “me.” The me that wants "certainty" as a way out of suffering. The me that imagines there is a you that is not "touched" by self-doubt or the judgments of others. The me that seeks certainty so the mind can rest. So it can be at peace. So Max can be happy.

As long as seeking continues, the story of me continues. Seeing this, stillness is apparent. In this stillness, even the subtlest movement of thought, if followed, if believed, leads to fantasy and inevitably, suffering. Clearly, some thoughts are more "sticky" than others. Br'er Rabbit and the Tar Baby comes to mind.
  
A: You said, “As long as seeking continues, the story of me continues. Seeing this, stillness is apparent.”

And really, this is all. Beautiful. Stillness is apparent. Full stop. That’s the whole ball of wax. There can be a noticing of all kinds of thoughts, feelings, sensations, but then, stillness is again apparent. So it’s noticed that the thoughts and feelings of the story change and fluctuate, but the stillness is unchanged, always, eternally right now. That’s all we need to know.

>Clearly, some thoughts are more "sticky" than others.

The most amazing thing I noticed about this is that the sticky stuff is not a problem! Is it suffering to have some sticky, icky stuff on you? Is it suffering to notice some depression, anxiety, annoyance, fear? Not really. They’re just feelings – they don’t have any power. All they can do is go and produce other feelings! They don’t actually DO anything. So is there really suffering to be had?

Check this out for yourself. Do any of your suffering feelings/thoughts do anything to you, besides produce other feelings/thoughts, which then change again, to some other feelings? Is there any final effect of these feelings? Or are they powerless after all? How can there be suffering if nothing is affected? 

Q: "Is there really any suffering to be had?" Your question is right on the mark. The "me" wants to fix "problems" and suffers when it can't or doesn't know how (and believes it should or must). That is at least in part why I write to you. It's clear that "problem" is a concept. What keeps that concept going is the belief in suffering, which obviously is dependent upon a belief in a separate “me.” Check and mate.

There is more space apparent around all this since you and I began our conversation. Perhaps it's just another thought, but suffering seems like a linchpin holding "me" together. On some level I know "suffering" is just another concept, but I haven't really seen this with the clarity that ensued from my investigation of “certainty.”

Thanks for following up. There is much gratitude here. I will let you know what the exploration of suffering reveals.

A: So you do seem to have all the basics in place, and yet you still believe that suffering persists. Let’s look.

Are you suffering now? Right now? 

No. The body is comfortable, and there is simply a noticing of all these things going on, and nothing is wrong with any of it. But what you’re doing is thinking about (worrying about, most likely) a past or future suffering Max, who does not exist right now, and then you’re telling me (or you) a story about how suffering still persists. If you look, you’ll see that right here, there is nothing needed, and no suffering. It’s that simple!!!!!!

I’m just going to show you a couple of places where you imagined or thought about suffering happening at some other time, and then told me a story about it: 

>The "me" wants to fix "problems" and suffers when it can't

When does it do this? Some other time? What about right now? Is there a problem right now? This whole idea of a “me” who suffers because of something it wants is just story. Is there anything needed right now?

>What keeps that concept going is the belief in suffering

When does the belief in suffering keep the concept going? Not now! Now, there is only this, pure new moment of being, and where is the problem now? Your story is that “what keeps the concept going is…” etc.

>Perhaps it's just another thought,

Well of course it is!

>but suffering seems like a linchpin holding "me" together.

When? Over time? When does that time happen? Is there any linchpin right now? How can there be? Doesn’t a linchpin holding you together need time to hold you together over time? Right now, what is there to hold together? This is more of your story. Where does this suffering that holds you together go when you aren't thinking about it? 

>I haven't really seen this with the clarity that ensued from my investigation of “certainty.”

Story story. When haven’t you seen this? What’s happening right now? Is there a problem right now? What kind of clarity or certainty is needed to know that there is no problem right now? Was certainty ever needed? Will it ever be needed?

I want you to stick with this one thing. Keep chopping off the past and future ruthlessly with a big meat cleaver and watch them drop away, leaving nothing here but this eternally brand new moment. That’s all that’s ever here. Cut right through your story, vertically, and see that there is nothing left right here. It’s not even a molecule thick. There is nothing left. Just a pure fresh moment of nowness arising. See that all future and all past is non-existent, right now. So where is all the stuff that lives in the story?

Can you compose any statement or question, if you stay out of the past and future? Try it.

I don’t know where this will lead for you, but let me know. The only way you can “defend” suffering and tell me you still have it is if you tell me a story about the past or future. You can’t defend your suffering if you stick with just right now, which is the only time there ever is!

So, you can keep defending your suffering, but you have to admit that you know you have to hold onto your story in order to do it. What’s it going to be?

Q: Your response was very effective in showing me where I'm still holding on to my story – much to my chagrin I might add. The basics have been in place here for some time, but I have been holding on to the story of Max and his suffering.

"Keep chopping off the past and future ruthlessly." With that instruction, when I look, I cannot honestly find suffering now. I see thoughts arising out of nowhere and I notice sensations in the body. Thought arises now and spins a story of the past or the future. And that's where Max exists – the past and future, both of which are imagined now. 

Feels a bit like an acid trip. The mind wants to get things back to “normal.” But the activity of the mind does not create the slightest ripple in the deep stillness of now.

I am not suffering now.

A: I'm not giving up on you that easily. I can hear the "BUT....." at the end of your statement loud and clear. 

I want to go back to the beginning and address the very first email you ever sent me. You said: "I want the certainty you express." Try answering this question: What will be different when you have it? Just stick with that one thing. What will be different when you are certain? 

Q: When I last wrote you, I was not conscious of the “BUT.” Your observation took me by surprise. As I consider it, however, I can hear the story continuing: “Now I've had some important insights and perhaps with time and vigilance...blah, blah, blah.” So I will take your suggestion and go back to the beginning.

What will be different when I am certain? “I,” Max (?), will be different, will "feel" different. I will no longer have (or believe? – I'm not sure how this works) the feeling-sense of being a separate (and flawed) individual. Instead of being aware of stillness, I'll be aware that I am stillness, untouched by the content of the moment. I imagine that you and other teachers have an effortless knowing that all is well no matter what arises.

This is painful. I feel dense, like I'm missing the most obvious thing in the world. I know what I wrote is from the point of view of a separate "me" seeking relief, wanting to feel better. It also sounds like I'm parroting some non-dual party line. Stillness is here, and silence and all this commotion. I'm sorry. Maybe I need to sit with your question longer, but I felt the need to respond now. Tell me what you suggest and I'll do it.

I can't thank you enough for being there and for not giving up. Please don't give up.

A: You’re welcome. Thanks for sticking with what I asked. You answered that you will feel different. You will feel unseparate and unflawed.

You want to feel unseparate. You want to feel unflawed. Why? What do these feelings do to you that you want to make different?

Do you think these feelings of being separate cause you to feel like things aren’t okay? Does it matter if you feel like things are okay? What happens if you feel like things are not okay? What is the outcome?

Just try to explore these questions and see what comes up.

Q: Your questions have proven quite a challenge. Why do I want to feel unseparate? When I looked for a concrete answer, I saw that "unseparate" is a concept I can't really define. And if I'm not sure what it is, how can I say I want it? "Unflawed" leads me to the same place. I feel like I'm not communicating clearly to you or me. I'm asking for things, but I can't explain what they are. Why do I want them? I believe they will make me happy. That makes no sense.

What do these feelings do that I want to make different? I can't say they "do" anything. They just “are.” When they're present, which is more often than I'd like, I'm unhappy. Why? I don't have a good answer. I just don't feel good. I can't clearly explain that either. Does it matter if I think things are okay? It matters to me. When I believe things are not okay, I feel like crap. I'm unhappy, worried, unable to enjoy life. And I try to escape those feelings in unhealthy ways. Frequently, it seems the harder I try to make things okay, the less okay they become or seem to become.

Do feelings of being separate cause me to feel things are not ok? Maybe I should have said the "belief" in separateness. That's what I've read and heard for years. I want to say I know it in some way. It rings true. But it seems so easy to deceive myself. I feel like I'm getting tangled up in words. Meanings are unclear and I am finding it difficult to say anything that has any real or clear meaning. It's amazing how much I let go unquestioned.

When I read what you write, I imagine the stillness and peace I've tasted is somehow the foreground for you, an ongoing experience. It is reality for you; you are no longer entranced or disturbed by the chatter of thought or the waves of emotions.

I read your words and I feel such a deep longing for “that.” I can't know what it's really like for you so I imagine it, based on the stillness and peace I've tasted. Does it mean feeling unseparate, unflawed and that everything is ok? I'm sure those ideas are irrelevant. They are from the perspective of a “me.” I don't know how to put this into words. Everything now just seems to be a jumble of thoughts that don't really mean anything. But the longing is here.

This is as far as I've gotten.

A: Good. You said: “When I believe things are not okay, I feel like crap. I'm unhappy, worried, unable to enjoy life. And I try to escape those feelings in unhealthy ways.”

And? What is the outcome of these things happening? What happens if you are unable to enjoy life, and you escape your negative feelings in unhealthy ways? What’s the outcome?

I know this may seem like an absurd line of questioning. But all the other questions just lead to a dead end. My questions have the potential to break you out of patterned ways of thinking that keep you imprisoned. Just try it. For your reply, only entertain the questions I’ve asked you here, and see what comes up.

Q: On one level, it's just what it is – I don't enjoy life and I escape in unhealthy ways. That usually leads to self-criticism and fear of judgment. It also seems to confirm a negative self-image and a sense of being a victim.  It is often followed by resolutions to “do better.” This pattern appears to repeat itself.

"What's the outcome?"

Feeling bad just feels bad. And there is frustration and hopelessness when I can't change things. On another level, there is no outcome per se. Life goes on. There are difficult circumstances; I react how I react, which may seem to make things worse, or at least make me feel worse, then circumstances change. What comes up from this inquiry is a questioning of control. Do I have any control over anything, including my own actions?

I don't want to stray from your questions so I’ll stop here.

A: Is there anything you have named here as undesirable besides a thought, feeling, or experience of some kind?

Q: No.

A: And so you just want to avoid bad feelings and experiences?

Q: Wow, sounds pretty hopeless. No matter how I spin it – transcend, see through, change my relationship to the feelings – the answer to your question is "yes, I don't want to have those bad feelings and experiences." If someone said that to me, I'd say "Good luck with that.”

A: You’d say “Good luck with that” because you know that no one can avoid having bad feelings and experiences. So doesn’t this indicate that the freedom has to do with something other than feelings and experiences?

Does this lead you to come up with a new question?

It may take some doing to come up with a question that does not have to do with feelings and experiences.

Q: Okay. Thoughts, feelings, experiences – all these come and go. No question about that. Also clear there's no substance to any of it. No matter how strong or important it feels, it's not real; it's ephemeral, dream-like. No point in looking for freedom or truth there. Then there's Max, the supposed perceiver. But Max is also perceived. “I” am aware – I started to say “of Max” – but what came up is, Is that true? Is there an “I” that's aware?" Or is there just awareness with no self in it? Is there a separation between perceiving and perceived? Does any of this make any difference?

Let me try another tack. There are objects of perception – room, chair, body – but without thought, feeling, or experience what do I know about any of these things? Nothing. I believe they exist because I think about them; I experience them. I believe in Max for the same reason.

I'm still looking for a question that doesn't have to do with feeling better. Stillness is palpable. What is that? At the same time, thoughts are bouncing around looking for something – what? Trying to resolve something – what is it? What do I really want to know? And why do I want to know it – just to feel better? In the end aren't all questions about trying to feel better? Because all questions refer to a me? Without thoughts or feelings, “me” can't define itself so it ceases to exist as a “me.” So who is there to ask questions? I feel like I'm going in circles and the answer or the question is outside this box.

I do want this. I will stay with it. I'm going to bed now and will send you an update in the morning.

Later:

Good Morning Annette,

I've been reading through our conversation. You've been amazingly patient and generous with me. I don't want to waste your time so let's cut to the chase.

Clearly there is some level of understanding here. There is also a sense of incompleteness. I feel like beyond a certain point, my understanding stops and I don't know what to do or where to go. I usually go back to trying to fix my life and hope that something magically happens or someone (in this case you) will lead me to freedom. Doesn't sound too good, but there it is.

I do not intend to repeat that pattern.

You said in one of your posts something to the effect that you were amazed that this had happened for you. That reawakened a desire within me. I could taste the freedom you described. I dared to believe it could happen for me, too. When I tried to define that desire I ended up saying I just wanted to feel better – to avoid the clearly unavoidable thoughts, feelings and experiences I find unpleasant. Hopeless.

What is there besides thoughts, feelings and experiences? What doesn't change? I know the answer is stillness, presence, awareness. I'm looking there. Saying "I'm looking" indicates separation between me and stillness. Can I be aware of awareness? That sounds like gibberish.

I recognize some familiar quality to whatever it is that is not thought. There is something changeless even as everything changes. Is this always present? On some level I know it is, although my awareness of it waxes and wanes. This is what I'm chewing on – me and stillness. Presence is like an experience in the sense that I can ascribe qualities to it, which objectifies it. I know I've got this backwards. “I” am the object, not presence. Is that the shift in perception that happens? Otherwise this leads nowhere.

I will stay with this and continue to report until it's finished.

A: Your email is outstanding – you came to see that everything leads back to the “me” wanting a better feeling. Everything! And you are quite right that nothing inside that “box” is going to provide freedom.

So I guess I asked you a trick question (I don’t plan these things!). There is nothing you could have answered that did not ultimately have to do with feeling better. So, bravo – you got it right. Now, what about that palpable stillness you mentioned? Would you like to tell me something about that?

>I feel like I'm going in circles and the answer or the question is outside this box.

Where is the palpable stillness? Inside or outside the box? Does it change when the feeling is bad, or when the feeling is good?

>“I” am the object, not presence. Is that the shift in perception that happens? Otherwise this leads nowhere.

Let’s find out what you mean by some of these things. What do you mean by a “shift in perception.” Is “shift in perception” kind of a nebulous idea that you’re not really sure what it means, but you think if you have it, you will not have any bad feelings arising? Is “shift in perception” just kind of code for “permanent feel-good state”?

Is there anything you think you want that is not code for “permanent feel-good state”?  Isn’t “having awareness rest on the unchanging without waxing and waning” also code for “permanent feel-good state”?

And since we already know the answer to that, let’s find out if this is really what you want. Do you want a permanent feel-good state?

Q: Thank you. Yes, I walked down the same street and fell into the same hole again. I truly value your uncompromising clarity. I've gotten away with this crap for too long. As I discovered yesterday and again just now, all these questions are indeed nebulous and arise from a "me" that can only seek to feel good. That seems to be all it ever does or is capable of. Yes. Ultimately, the entire existence of "me" is about trying to feel good. Of course.

No wonder seeking is endless. What is sought is a fantasy, an impossibility. It doesn't even make sense. “Good” is only recognized in relation to “bad.” Without the experience of “bad,” there is no experience to be called “good.”

Okay. So if the "me" will always and only seek feel-good states, permanent or otherwise (it'll take what it can get), then it is doomed to failure and can only keep going by ignoring the futility of its quest. Freedom then is not for “me.” “Me” is a prisoner of the need to feel good. This is clear from logic and experience. I've chased the dream of "feel-good" long enough to see without a doubt that it only goes in circles and leads nowhere. Feeling good can never last. The only possible conclusion is that what exists, what is free, is not “me.”

I've always been confused by the idea of no self. For the first time I sense no personal self. I feel a bit unsteady here, but excited. What am I? I'm not even sure how to frame the question without conjuring a personality.

I think I need to sit with this for a bit. The stillness is...I don't have the words for it. I will write again as soon as I can.

Thank you. Thank you.

A: Sounds good, Max. This is the idea. Let the wordless work on you. Don’t try to control it. Don’t overthink it – in fact, don’t think about it at all. Maybe just let it simmer by itself for a day or two. No hurry. Just report as things come up, or when you have questions.

Q: Thank you, Annette. Lots of quiet today and some good laughs when thoughts pretending to be important are seen to be of no consequence. I'll be in touch soon.

I didn’t hear from Max for a while…

A: Man, has your mind quieted down! Great. Don't make any effort to rev it back up. If and when it does, let me know what's cooking. 

Q: My mind did quiet down! For several days I was completely immersed in stillness. I was at rest, at peace – I wasn't worried about anything. What a relief! Over the last few days my mind has gotten more active. I just woke up one morning and there it was. Stillness remains clearly present. At the same time, I find myself engaging again with worry, although not getting lost in it like I used to.

There's really not much to say. I'd just like to hear from you.

A: This is a key juncture you’re at. It’s when you realize that even the experience of worry and engaging with thought are not problems. Nothing is a problem. Welcome to a key juncture!

So let’s take a closer look:

What is affected? You worry, and what happens? What is affected? Yes, you had a nice blissful few days! Hooray! No worry! Relief! It’s yummy as heck. But it’s just an experience, and it’s not something you’re trying to keep or return to. That would just be more grabbing onto what is thought of as “better.” And of course, that causes pain and contraction from life.

So welcome back to the real world. Now what? Do I live in that blissful, dreamy state? No. Does it happen sometimes? Yes. Passing experience. Do I get a headache sometimes? Yes. Passing experience. I couldn’t care less about experience. It all passes.

Experience, like thoughts, feelings, and sensations, are passing phenomena. This is not about phenomena of any kind – not even blissful states that feel so right, and feel like “This is it!! This is what I’ve been wanting!” It’s not about that. That all passes. THIS does not pass.

So let’s take this next thing apart now. We’re still digging to the core. We haven’t gotten there yet.

When you feel stillness, what is affected? Is anything really gained by that? When the stillness is replaced for a while by worry, is anything really lost by that? What is affected – anything, other than moods, thoughts, feelings? Does any of that matter? Does any of that affect anything? What is lost? What is gained?

In what way is active mind different from still mind?

I know you’ll blow through this. You’ve made some really good progress and you’re on a roll. Don’t stop.

Q: Thank you. It's so good to hear from you. Let's dig to the core.

I do recognize the futility of the “I've got it/I lost it” game. I've played it before and I know where it leads – right back to where we started. You ask, "what is affected" by the experience of stillness or worry? "What is gained or lost?" Nothing. Nothing real is happening; as you say, just passing phenomena. It's only the “me” that is concerned with trying to always feel good and avoid feeling bad.   

I confess some confusion about stillness. It seems to be always present, which makes it seem somehow fundamental, but it also seems to be an experience of the “me.” Sometimes foreground; sometimes background. If stillness is observed, which it is, then what I am must be prior. Something is here. Something is aware or conscious and is watching the whole show – active mind, quiet mind, worried me, blissful me – observing, experiencing it all. What is THAT?

The stillness now is sweet and deep, but I get it that it will pass. I looked to stillness when it was revealed that looking at the thoughts and experiences of the me would lead nowhere. Logically, I can't look at that which is looking. This seems to be as far as I can go at the moment.

A: Good – you are seeing that nothing is really happening; nothing affects anything in reality; all phenomena pass. Now, let’s apply that across the board.

Let’s just take the first sentence. “I confess some confusion about stillness.” So what? All phenomena pass, even confusion.

Confusion happens. Clarity happens. Stillness happens. Agitation happens. Nothing stays. So what are you going to do about stillness? Get more clear about it? When? For how long? Get more still? When? For how long? Will it stay?

Don’t put “stillness” or “clarity” or anything else on a pedestal. There is nothing you need – no stillness, no clarity, no anything.

Is “stillness” unchanged by whatever is going on? From where I stand, everything is unchanged by what is going on!

Are you before stillness? I don’t know. I don’t care. This may be something that reveals itself at some point, but I’m all about practicality: What works to stop actual suffering. And looking into these unanswerable questions does not work. What works is to see that your very own personal story is full of holes! That’s all! And I’m trying to show you how to find your holes, so stay with me.

“The stillness now is sweet and deep, but I get it that it will pass.” So, can you really call it sweet? Anxiety might come next, and it will pass, too. So what was the difference? Nothing was affected, so how would you judge which was sweet and which was undesirable?

How can you judge sweetness? What do you judge it against? Can't stillness just be, without your wanting something from it? Like "sweetness"?

We’re just looking at all the lies we tell ourselves. They really keep us prisoner. Once uncovered, we’re free.

Q: Your last email rocked my world. I had gotten very comfortable focusing on stillness; I realize it was the story of the seeker finding something. Funny. You pulled that rug right out from under me. I wanted to respond right away, but I didn't know how.

My life, as I have experienced it, is a story. Whatever I experience is always changing and has no intrinsic meaning. Meaning comes from thought, from the story. Why do I say stillness is preferable to anxiety? I have believed that the experience I'm having in any given moment tells me something about “me,” about my life, when in truth I don't know what any of it means. I've just been lost in the story and the vain attempt to make “me” look and feel good. Desirable, undesirable, sweetness, suffering – it's stunning how I have never questioned the many nebulous concepts that create the story.

>Don’t put “stillness” or “clarity” or anything else on a pedestal. There is nothing you need – no stillness, no clarity, no anything.

That sounds right. I feel like I want to say something else about this, or maybe ask a question, but I can't find any words at the moment.

Thank you for sticking with me.

A: >It's stunning how I have never questioned the many nebulous concepts that create the story.

Exactly! Isn’t it amazing?

We can just be wordless for now. If you want to say anything, I’m here. It doesn’t sound like you need anything further. Anything that arises from here on out just evaporates in this – your knowing that it’s all constantly changing and has no intrinsic meaning. That’s it! 

Good job, Max.

Follow up from Max: I looked at our dialogue on the website. Quite fascinating and somewhat amusing, this imaginary journey I took. You were terrific to work with and I appreciate you getting on my case; in fact, that's part of what attracted me to you. I've always tried to avoid criticism, but I've come to realize that sometimes I just need a good kick in the ass.

Thank you again. There is much gratitude here.